VGR council: report of the councils 3 and 4

Issued by kloh

Note: this text has been translated from French with Deepl.

Tournament with other communities

To develop communication and partnerships, Foxof proposed to make tournaments with other communities.
These tournaments could involve various games (Rocket League, Super Smash, Mario Kart...) in teams of 3 or 4, depending on availability and motivated players in each community.
If this project is well followed and represented, it could lead to a form of tournament (inter-community match with tables/chickboards) and/or integrated directly on the site.

Highlighting VGR

Several needs have been identified to allow us to better promote the site:

  • Need to recruit one or more people who can manage the communication (articles, social networks), in French and English. If you have the soul of a communicator, don't hesitate to show up!
  • Add on the site links to Twitch and Discord to redirect more people on these places of exchanges.
  • Promote VGR's Youtube channel and make it more attractive and lively.
  • Make a trailer for the site (a bit like Arcade did a few years ago).

Separation of original games and virtual consoles

It was decided by the council to separate the original games (NES, Megadrive...) from their virtual console version (Wii, Wii U, 3DS, Switch...).
This separation will therefore lead to the creation of a new game, which will then be affiliated to the corresponding platform and would no longer be assimilated with the original game.
For the separation of the already existing records of the members on these games, this will be done and taken into account later, the priority being to separate and make the competition fairer and more equitable on VGR, which was not necessarily the case with the games are grouped.

In the same idea, the "mini" consoles will appear on VGR as a platform in their own, since the game conditions are different (rewind, saves...).
They will therefore be offered with only the official catalogue provided by the publishers and developers: i.e. the 20 games of the PlayStation Classic or the 21 games of the SNES Classic Edition, for example.

In addition to these changes, members will be able to add a "proof" to show that they own a console or a game. As with the proofs for records, proving possession of consoles/games will not be mandatory, but another member will be able to request proof.
This point has led to some thoughts on photos/videos related to the players' collection. This could lead to a new feature on the latter on VGR in the future.

Evocation of emulation on VGR

Emulation on VGR has been mentioned in both councils, but its arrival is not expected on the site at the moment. The main reason is that other sites do it (very well) and the diversity of emulators that can be found everywhere makes it difficult.
Moreover, VGR's will has always been to offer legitimate records on the various commercially available games and consoles.

The "Flow" games

Beyond the competition, VGR wants to be an encyclopedia of video game records. As such, "Flow" games have their place on VGR. But we are aware that the interest of certain records in terms of competition (such as moves) is limited.

To limit the negative impact of these records on the competition, two actions are therefore envisaged:

  • Add the possibility of no longer taking into account a record/group/game in the general ranking. The point "Case of unavailable games and uncompetitive records" below describes the principle in more detail.
  • Revise the formula of the points earned on the records allowing easily to have a gold medal. More details in the point "Redesign of the management of gold medals for tied games".

Cases of unavailable games and uncompetitive records

If the situation of unavailable games has always existed, it has become more acute since the advent of mobile and digital games, on PCs and consoles alike.
Moreover, on VGR, competition must remain fair and it is not considered fair play to have games that are no longer available, nor different according to the versions of the game or the consoles, etc.

So in the next version of VGR, it will be made possible to "disable" games that are no longer available so that they are no longer taken into account in the overall ranking. They will however remain available so that players wishing to play them can still post their records.

Beyond their availability, these games (especially mobile games) will also have to be played in the same way and therefore with the same version to have a fair competition.

Redesign of the management of gold medals for tied games

Also with the aim of providing fair competition, records that allow for easy accumulation of gold medals (such as moves in Flow, for example) were discussed, including a review of the management of gold medals and the points they earn.
In order to reduce the impact of such records on the rankings, it was decided to implement a formula to reduce or even nullify the points brought by a record if too many players are tied with a gold medal.

The idea would be to set a limit of tied players on a record to apply a formula that would reduce the points in proportion to the number of tied players, taking into account the ratio of the number of tied players to the total number of players posting a score.

The precise formula has yet to be studied for application on the next version of the site.

Next council

The next council will address the issue of financing VGR, what can be found/done to help the site at this level and to improve its attractiveness.


10/05/2020 08:27
A few comments:

Separation of original games and virtual consoles:
In my opinion, the split should be between:
1) the original games and their digital re-releases with no added features (save states, rewind) making records easier, and
2) digital re-releases with added features (saves states, rewind) making records easier (if used).
Concretely, Wii VC games fall in the first category, while 3DS/Wii U VC games fall in the second category. I cannot think of any reason to split Wii VC games from original games as far as records go. Listing Wii VC games with 3DS/Wii U versions would be unfair to Wii players (no save states / rewind), and listing Wii VC games as standalone games would lead to their deactivation (the Wii eShop has been closed in January 2019).

One consequence of the split is that (if I understand correctly) VGR would allow the use of saves states and rewinds on re-releases which offer these features (if true, this could be added as an extra rule on the page of the game). I would like to propose one exception: I would like to be allowed to submit such records on the charts of the original game as long as I prove my record by video to prove no save state / rewind was used.

I want to draw attention to Neo Geo games in particular: most Neo Geo games have been re-released on modern platforms: Switch, PS4, Xbox One, but also PC, PS3, Wii, etc. Game charts narrowed down to Neo Geo AES hardware would turn more into a wealth contest than a skills contest. On a game-by-game basis, it seems more reasonable for the sake of video games records competition to include in the original VGR game charts the modern platforms which do not offer save states / rewind (as verified by one or several VGR members).

The "Flow" games: I am glad this issue is being addressed. Being aware that there is no perfect solution here, the idea of deactivating some charts from global ranking (or add a penalty factor for "chart flooders" like CS does) sounds a better choice than the current situation. I want to point out that "easy gold medals" is only one small aspect of the problem.

Cases of unavailable games and uncompetitive records: deactivating unavailable games (games delisted from digital stores and unavailable in physical form) seems a logical decision. Please take into account that sometimes delisted games are being relisted later (so VGR should keep the possibility to reactivate games). We could start a forum topic to identify all unavailable games known to VGR members.

Redesign of the management of gold medals for tied games: I encourage you to discuss the new gold medal formula on the forum, so that VGR members can participate and contribute. (This should be, in my view, the case for every drastic modification of the website in discussion among admins.)
11/05/2020 11:33 - Edited the 11/05/2020 12:12
I don't understand the whole point of the gold medals, we have the platinum for the global ranking to counter this. If this topic is linked to Flow, be careful before changing this again for the whole website.

In the past max gold give you more points, now the formula give you less points if you are tied with others people. Everything is fine for me about this but maybe if you want to improve the decrease BE CAREFUL to change the WHOLE point system too.

I'm afraid that you gonna create a new maze and create a new weird situation because some people gonna have more points if they gonna submit last places for example in 5 charts than a player who submit 5 easy tied gold in the same game ? what's the point of this ?

Maybe it's time to change the whole formula because there is actually some problem on little against famous games about the reward of points.....
Maybe it's time to include the use of the value in addition of the position in the formula ?

Example of somes weirds rewards for me : all this positions are equals points (~380pts)
18 / 72 (best 25%)
14 / 45 (best 31%)
9 / 20 (best 45%)
3 / 6 (best 50%)
Same here with ~37Xpts with equals :
17 / 63 (best 26%)
6 / 11 (best 54%)
Same here with ~37Xpts with equals :
15 / 52 (best 28%)
86 / 190 (best 45%)
Same here with ~28Xpts with equals :
18 / 53 (best 33%)
5 / 7 (best 71%)
Same here with ~22Xpts with equals :
18 / 46 (best 39%)
7 / 8 (best 88%)
Same here with ~20Xpts with equals :
6 / 6 (best 100%)
23 / 51 (best 45%)
Same here with ~19Xpts with equals :
7 / 7 (best 100%)
20 / 43 (best 46%)

It's a big change of VGR....
11/05/2020 17:05
The Wii U/3DS eShop will start close partially in July 2020, making unavailable in future.
18/05/2020 15:40
Thanks for your comments and argues, we will study them to obtain a good compromise.
23/05/2020 17:31
Thanks for the comments, as zephyraz says we will use this advice and thoughts for the future