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  • zephyraz
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2018-07-12 11:34:04  
I wrote this the last 04th May:

zephyraz :

So, now that the VGR Tournament 11 is over, what is the opinion/decision concerning Zimer ?
Will he be authorised to stay on VGR, to submit scores, or not ?
Must he send only video proofs ?

I can only help for games I know, and I think the problem is not only Zimer, but the way how VGR grouped some Wii games with others (original versions).
I will talk about this later (end of May), I need time to gather some details.
But you can already discuss again about this tricky problem.  


Now I have more elements:
Zimer is still active in VGR, he sent me video links of his records for Streets of Rage 1 and 2 (thanks  ):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYlpQUI_-D8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGStVkUkp14

Clearly, he used a Wii console for this, so these records should be deleted from the original one.
The Wii console have savestates inside the system, and you can't compare the records made in Wii and the records made in original systems.
Also, his incredible highscore in The Revenge of Shinobi underlines a problem in VGR: some games have mixed versions with Wii.

I disagree with this, it totally ruins the healthy competition, and the consequence is the presence of members like Zimer.
So the problem is not Zimer, it comes from VGR !  

I think we should take time to split all the Wii games versions from the original now, and take time to study the Zimer's case in details.  
Can somebody answer to my questions this summer?

  • narutokyuby
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2018-07-12 14:24:14  
From the moment you can save in the game, it's different and so you have to separate

  • PMniac
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2018-07-12 23:47:29  
Why do WiiVC need to be split from "original" console?
It's an official port of the game to a newer console.

@narutokyuubi you are mistaken WiiVC with WiiU VC where you can create a save state. Which should not be allowed like in Cyberscore.

In case WiiVC games need to be split (which I don't see any sense in that), you'll need to filter all games existent and check which version every single player played and move those records. In some cases users might not even be active anymore on VGR, so it'll unbalance even more things.

I'm going to keep up with this subject.

  • zephyraz
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2018-07-13 10:17:52  

PMniac :


@narutokyubi you are mistaken WiiVC with WiiU VC where you can create a save state. Which should not be allowed like in Cyberscore.

In case WiiVC games need to be split (which I don't see any sense in that), you'll need to filter all games existent and check which version every single player played and move those records. In some cases users might not even be active anymore on VGR, so it'll unbalance even more things.
.

I don't own a Wii, nor a Wii U, so I don't know this kind of subtility.
In my opinion, if you can't create savestates with Wii VC, then we can keep mixed records like that.
But, if you have savestates with WiiU VC, these records shouldn't be allowed, and they need to be splited.

The problem is if you can't differenciate in a picture proof this kind of differences, so people can easily post their records in the original+Wii VC systems, and this ruins the competition in VGR.
I was too naïve with that, but now I more doubt on some crazy records in Genesis system ...  
VGR is mainly based on trust between players, but if there exist some doubts like with the actual Zimer's case, we should ask video proofs for all the games concerned by this.
Or better, we probably need to create an obligation to do video proofs for these games  , where you can see that the member owns the original game, or the Wii VC game.

We can't turn back to the VGR past, and we will probably not delete the records without video proofs (I agree with PMniac, it will be counterproductive). But that's incredible that you, guys who owns a Wii, never thought about this kind of problem in VGR  , because games, records and rankings are the main content of this site !

  • PMniac
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2018-07-13 13:28:31  
@zephyraz WiiVC and WiiU VC are not the same. You can't use save states on WiiVC.

I agree save states on WiiU VC and 3DS VC to not be allowed. I never submitted anything from WiiU VC or 3DS VC, but I'm totally against the use of that.

Abou using video proofs, I'm not against that, but it might be an option that's not easily doable for everyone. I have a good capture card (Elgato HD) which makes it easy for me to record all gameplay, but not everyone have that privilege.

Again WiiVC can't use save states. That's why it was never a problem, and is not.
Let me know what are your points that make you want to split WiiVC from the "original".

I understand WiiUVC and 3DS but even those shouldn't be splitted, just strictly forbid the use of save states. That should be implicit in the site rules under official emulation.

  • Undead
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2018-07-17 17:59:31 - Last edit the 2018-07-17 18:00:55  
But is that not the Problem what we have with this "offical" Emulators? It's hard to proof if you do not a Video proof.

If it's costs what made it "impossible" for some ppl buying the original console/cartridges for Retro games, then they should invest in Video grabber Tools instead to proof that they played the WiiUVC without savestates.
(you also can not be a Speed runner and say later: im good, but i have no idea how to recording my runs)

About Zimer: he send me on discord a PM about his Boom Blox Scores, a not listed video. I still did nothing with it, because i have not much time to "handle" zimer (because i have my own Games to play and videos to record) but it seems, that he knows well how to play Games, but the lack of information is still a problem. It should not takes months until something happen, but even the case if he can stay or not is WAY to long going on, because ppl have other things to do (or do not care at all)

For me: i can not say anymore you should ban zimer forever, because i think his acting strange is more like a scaring thing of ppl abuse his knowlege about games. But then again: how you can trust someone, if they hide to much. So i understand both sites now, Zimer and the others thinking he's a cheater.

I told him that he should be more open to the public, getting the trust back, but since then he just PM me instead of posting his videos to the public.

I don't know if i should post his not listed video here, but he did not say anything else about it.
It seems like he focus on the Admins, so not everyone get the information how he made a score. So he maybe posted the Boom Blox only me, because i know most of the strats already and so he don't give out secrets everyone but still try to proof them.

The Problem is now: i think im not qualified anymore to say if he can stay or not, because on the one side he can stay, because he actually try to do at least "something", but at the same time he still tries to stay silent and i don't think this will fit on a score site with many ppl still don't trust him.

On the other side i think i already wasted to much time about this case. Staying for months there without anything happen. Discussing about it on discord, so ppl should already know what i think about this case. At the end im just a guy that loves prooven scores and trustworthy ppl that have fun prooving there scores. But if anyone refuses to post Video proof of well made or hard to get scores, then there's sometimes something fishy.

So im "out" of this Zimer case. If he can stay or not, is not (and it was never) in my Hand. Im ok with both ways, if the way is made with a good reason and give Options for future cases.

  • [Zimer]
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2018-07-18 21:12:41 - Last edit the 2018-07-18 21:13:23  
For anyone that thinks that I don't have videos, this is my channel which is organized by series/games.
All my over than 560 focuses in scores.

When I joined around 9.5 years ago, I asked like another user if VC games are allowed and I was authorized. Here, wii-records and CS users have been submitted scores for years without import if is original or VC and I don't see sense to try to split. Gameplay is not changed.

Admins have been received respective proofs in games. Another thing that I have to clarify is that I have proofs of scores (many photos and some of them videos) in games that I don't have anymore.


I don't play games for fun, only for scores.

  • greendayseb
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2018-08-22 14:05:03  
Nice, I see 1 year later VGR has learned from his mistakes...

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