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  • zephyraz
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2019-10-07 11:11:30  
1)Since 30/04/2018:

zephyraz :

Zabadar made a mistake in Zuma Deluxe: he sent his score in the wrong place (level 13-1, rather than Adventure-High score).
I deleted his proof already, so now please delete his score here(link) also.


2)Since 15/05/2018:
In the game Star Wars Battlefront II, only video proofs can be accepted, because we don't see the name of the level with pictures.
But whatever the level is, i think Wyryn made a mistake here. It was shown by his older proof (that I now deleted).
He sent 998, but it was 997.
So please, correct this.

3)Now:
Check the 2 video proofs from Sigeth here in Trackmania2 Canyon:
A05 Stadium - 52"411
A06 Canyon - 22"537

Nothing is written: we can't identify neither the name of the track (if you don't know the game), and worse, nor the record time !
So, these 2 proofs needs to be deleted (but not the scores).

2019-10-07 19:46:39  
Sonic R (Saturn Version)

Records (platinums):

Radical City - Lap Record (VGR User Got4n85)
Radical City - Total Time (VGR User Got4n85)

The picture proof for these two records which have been approved by VGR are not from the Saturn version, they are from the Gamecube/PS2 version included in Sonic Gems Collection. That particular screen is not in the Saturn version, I have both versions so I know for certain.

Also the times posted are obviously achieved using a glitch, lap times of under 3 seconds is not possible.

What is the VGR consensus on glitched records?

Personally I do not mind shortcuts and other skill related techniques to achieve records, but I do not support glitches. I find it unsporting. It is also likely in modern games especially, glitches will be patched out and so the glitched records will stand forever completely untouchable. Is this fair?

  • Sellyme
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2019-10-08 06:08:47  

RemoteFortress :


What is the VGR consensus on glitched records?


Glitches are allowed with two minor exceptions: glitches that don't work on all versions/platforms, and glitches that freeze the timer.

That said, several thousand scores exist on this site that use "glitches that freeze the timer", several dating back over five years, and there has been absolutely no staff response about it, so at this point it's safe to assume that this rule isn't actually enforced.

It is also likely in modern games especially, glitches will be patched out and so the glitched records will stand forever completely untouchable. Is this fair?


The specific wording of the rules is that glitches "must be achievable by any player" to be allowed. For a glitch that is patched out in a manner that would prevent this, then that would not be allowed.

However, most modern games can easily be depoted back to an older version that would allow "any player" to use it, and I suspect that this rule was written with older games in mind (e.g., a glitch only possible on a JP cartridge of a game and not an EU one). For this reason I would suspect that on modern games a glitch only working on "some versions" would still be allowed as long as those versions are readily accessible to anyone with a copy of the game.

It's also worth noting that some games have rules specific to that game that may disallow certain glitches for competitive purposes.

2019-10-08 07:17:49  
@Sellyme

Thanks for the reply and explanation.

  • zephyraz
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2019-10-08 11:41:36  

RemoteFortress :

Sonic R (Saturn Version)
Records (platinums):

Radical City - Lap Record (VGR User Got4n85)
Radical City - Total Time (VGR User Got4n85)

The picture proof for these two records which have been approved by VGR are not from the Saturn version, they are from the Gamecube/PS2 version included in Sonic Gems Collection. That particular screen is not in the Saturn version, I have both versions so I know for certain.


Because you own the GC/PS2 version (in Sonic Gems Collection) and the Saturn version, we can trust you. Also, it seems that Got4n85 doesn't own the Saturn system, this is probably a mistake.
So these 2 records needs to be deleted by admins.
Due to the fact that admins don't read this topic often, keep it open and remember it in the next future. Or you can directly contact admins (magicbart, viviengaetan, BlackShark, Foxof)...

I will contact Got4n85 to inform him, and ask him to confirm this.
After, when he will answer, he will maybe send again these 2 scores in Sonic Gems Collection.

  • Yuri
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2019-10-08 19:06:09  

zephyraz :

RemoteFortress :

Sonic R (Saturn Version)
Records (platinums):

Radical City - Lap Record (VGR User Got4n85)
Radical City - Total Time (VGR User Got4n85)

The picture proof for these two records which have been approved by VGR are not from the Saturn version, they are from the Gamecube/PS2 version included in Sonic Gems Collection. That particular screen is not in the Saturn version, I have both versions so I know for certain.


Because you own the GC/PS2 version (in Sonic Gems Collection) and the Saturn version, we can trust you. Also, it seems that Got4n85 doesn't own the Saturn system, this is probably a mistake.
So these 2 records needs to be deleted by admins.
Due to the fact that admins don't read this topic often, keep it open and remember it in the next future. Or you can directly contact admins (magicbart, viviengaetan, BlackShark, Foxof)...

I will contact Got4n85 to inform him, and ask him to confirm this.
After, when he will answer, he will maybe send again these 2 scores in Sonic Gems Collection.

Don't forget that me and monsterarceus have the rights too, and we are often in VGR.
I took care about that.

2019-10-08 20:23:28  
@zephyraz & Yuri

Understood, and noted.

Thank you both.

  • Smoka
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2019-10-08 23:55:17  
We need to have a discussion on specific rules on games in the future. I think everyone is waiting for the new version of the site for that to happen and we to have a place to put rules on the game pages.

I think if a glitch has been patched, it should not be allowed. You should use the latest version if possible. And if there are differences between JP and EU cartridge for example, those should probably be split to have a fair competition.

And before using a glitch, I think it would be better to ask first. And we could add this info on the game rules in the future. If the glitch is allowed or not.

  • Sellyme
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2019-10-09 05:03:26  

Smoka :


I think if a glitch has been patched, it should not be allowed. You should use the latest version if possible.


The problem about this is that it would make records retroactively invalid despite no change in VGR's rules. I don't think it's unreasonable to have the expectation that if I submit a record that is valid in 2019, it should not then get deleted in 2021 because of a decision made by someone who has never even heard of the site (the developer) to change their game.

If we accept that this permanency is a reasonable expectation (which you might not!), then it would clearly be unfair to new players to not have access to the same tools and methods that I did.

It's also worth noting that for this specific situation, talking about "glitches" is misleading. Really it applies to any method of obtaining a score: there's plenty of scores on the site that are impossible to match or beat already because the (completely legitimate and intended) method of obtaining them was changed or removed in an update. Worse still, some of those are in games where it's not possible to roll back to the earlier version, which is a much bigger concern in terms of competitive fairness.

  • GTi
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2019-10-09 06:52:35  
All would be more fair if such game submissions would have two separate entries.
One with 'glitches allowed' and the other not. This way, players like me who don't want to use glitches, aren't impacted and we can enjoy some 'sportive' competition.
Same goes for the use of continues. There are still scores on here clearly using continues but it's  like VGR doesn't  disapprove this. Odd. Games like Metal Slug or any other Capcom game.
Soit.

  • Smoka
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2019-10-09 09:52:42  

Sellyme :

Smoka :


I think if a glitch has been patched, it should not be allowed. You should use the latest version if possible.


The problem about this is that it would make records retroactively invalid despite no change in VGR's rules. I don't think it's unreasonable to have the expectation that if I submit a record that is valid in 2019, it should not then get deleted in 2021 because of a decision made by someone who has never even heard of the site (the developer) to change their game.

If we accept that this permanency is a reasonable expectation (which you might not!), then it would clearly be unfair to new players to not have access to the same tools and methods that I did.

It's also worth noting that for this specific situation, talking about "glitches" is misleading. Really it applies to any method of obtaining a score: there's plenty of scores on the site that are impossible to match or beat already because the (completely legitimate and intended) method of obtaining them was changed or removed in an update. Worse still, some of those are in games where it's not possible to roll back to the earlier version, which is a much bigger concern in terms of competitive fairness.


I think if a score was made in older version and is unreachable in the latest version, then it should be removed from the site. If you played the normal way, I think you'll be fine in most cases, but if you used unquestionable methods, then there's a higher chance for it to be patched and deleted. New players picking up the game years later, should have a chance to get the first place without the need of searching previous version where this certain bug wasn't fixed yet.

Mobile games are challenging for VGR because they keep changing sometimes weekly or monthly and perhaps greater update every year. Sometimes changing the whole gameplay and engine of the game. So old and new versions can be completely different sometimes.

I agree with GTi that splitting the game for 'glitches allowed' and 'glitches not allowed' could be a fair compromise. Just keep them as seperate games, so we can fight for the badge without the glitch charts if we so choose.

  • Ultim'D
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2019-10-14 15:37:33 - Last edit the 2019-10-14 18:36:14  

zephyraz :

1)Since 30/04/2018:

zephyraz :

Zabadar made a mistake in Zuma Deluxe: he sent his score in the wrong place (level 13-1, rather than Adventure-High score).
I deleted his proof already, so now please delete his score here(link) also.


DONE


2)Since 15/05/2018:
In the game Star Wars Battlefront II, only video proofs can be accepted, because we don't see the name of the level with pictures.
But whatever the level is, i think Wyryn made a mistake here. It was shown by his older proof (that I now deleted).
He sent 998, but it was 997.
So please, correct this.
DONE


3)Now:
Check the 2 video proofs from Sigeth here in Trackmania2 Canyon:
A05 Stadium - 52"411
A06 Canyon - 22"537

Nothing is written: we can't identify neither the name of the track (if you don't know the game), and worse, nor the record time !
So, these 2 proofs needs to be deleted (but not the scores).
I can't delete them, if any other admins have the rights to do so, feel free  

  • Ultim'D
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2019-10-17 10:35:25  
magicbart "unlinked" the videos to the record. It should be all good now  

  • zephyraz
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2019-10-17 12:18:31  
Thanks for all that you've done this week, Ultim'D, it was useful, you're very efficient.

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