Loading...

Page 1/1
  • Haruhi
  • avatar of Haruhi
  • Translator
  • 64 messages
  • Gender
  • Location
  • Offline  
2017-12-01 16:24:02  
Hi VGR staff.

Recently I've noticed I'm getting a lot of silly proof requests, and it's not just me.

This song, for example, mine and Arvain's records have both been accepted for proof requests this week. There is no reason for this proof request. Our score is not even close to the world record, and no-one else has submitted to that chart since 2014, however this proof requests was accepted today!

Here you can see the scorehero page for this same song/difficulty. Notice how Arvain and I are tied for 13th place? (I'm Mercurial on this site)

Is there actually any reason for this proof request? Is there any valid reason for the 30+ proof requests I've received in the past few months? It's frustrating to have to constantly deal with them. Arvain's records are just going to go black for no reason, because somebody decided to report his score which is entirely legitimate.

It's just getting a bit ridiculous is all. Proof Admins, please stop accepting everything for no reason.

  • Yuri
  • avatar of Yuri
  • Member
  • 205 messages
  • Gender
  • Location
  • Offline  
2017-12-01 18:35:25  
And you can't publish a proof?

  • Hikari
  • avatar of Hikari
  • Proof Admin
  • 565 messages
  • Gender
  • Location
  • Offline  
2017-12-01 19:18:15  
Hello,

TL;DR: I agree with you on most of what you posted, however, all PA (Proof Admins   ) have different opinions and accept requests where other PA's would refuse them.

Haruhi :

Recently I've noticed I'm getting a lot of silly proof requests, and it's not just me.

Don't worry, I've noticed a huge amount of them which are (in my opinion) invalid but still accepted. And that's been the case for a very long time. (read below to understand why I think they are invalid)

Haruhi :


This song, for example, mine and Arvain's records have both been accepted for proof requests this week. There is no reason for this proof request. Our score is not even close to the world record, and no-one else has submitted to that chart since 2014, however this proof requests was accepted today!

Is there actually any reason for this proof request? Is there any valid reason for the 30+ proof requests I've received in the past few months? It's frustrating to have to constantly deal with them. Arvain's records are just going to go black for no reason, because somebody decided to report his score which is entirely legitimate.


After checking, the reasons given for both of Arvain's scores are "If they have the same score they whould send a proof", and the reasons for your scores is "Arvain at least sent a few pictures but Haruhi didn't". I guess you can already tell from the first quote I made above and my reply, I was obviously not the PA who accepted this, and I would have refused them.

Haruhi :


It's just getting a bit ridiculous is all. Proof Admins, please stop accepting everything for no reason.


Last point here, I disagree with the PA's who have been accepting most of the proofs requests with various reasons such as:
- "this score is a platinum without a proof"
- "where is the proof?"
- "this score is a 1st place where XX people have submitted their scores/times"
- "No proof in this game for this MB owner."
- "1st place with no proof within 15 days."
- "can you prove it?"
and the list goes on...

The only valid reason I would have accepted among all the currently pending proof requests is this one, which is "The world record is barely under 19 seconds, 16 seems very suspicious".
What I think is that a proof request should contain a valid and good reason to ask a proof, what I mean by that is not something completely silly like I quoted above and not only requesting because someone has a first place / platinum / max score, and so on. There are already way too many deactivated scores on the site that are 100% legit (I am mainly thinking about Smash Bros. and Mario Kart series here).

Thanks anyways for mentionning this on the forums, Haruhi.  

  • Haruhi
  • avatar of Haruhi
  • Translator
  • 64 messages
  • Gender
  • Location
  • Offline  
2017-12-02 01:51:24 - Last edit the 2017-12-02 01:52:27  

Yuri :

And you can't publish a proof?


Of course I can publish a proof. It's just annoying to have to constantly pull out my old PS3 to deal with these proof requests because people are freely reporting scores. I've got 5 pages of them from just this year.

Arvain could also quite easily publish a proof, but because he doesn't visit the site anymore, his scores are going to get black-listed and be removed from the leaderboards. When he submitted them, there was no-one with the same score as him (I submitted after him) so that request reason is just flat out stupidity.

I have started to get the impression that if I want to improve on the leaderboards, it might be faster to just report the scores of whoever has the platinum medals for the charts I'm competing on and get their records removed - that is appalling.

The stupid thing is that on this particular song that I linked - there IS an obviously faked score that gets to stay! Last place submitted 0 points, which is impossible.

  • Yuri
  • avatar of Yuri
  • Member
  • 205 messages
  • Gender
  • Location
  • Offline  
2017-12-02 11:05:58  

Haruhi :



Of course I can publish a proof. It's just annoying to have to constantly pull out my old PS3 to deal with these proof requests because people are freely reporting scores. I've got 5 pages of them from just this year.

True...

Haruhi :


there IS an obviously faked score that gets to stay! Last place submitted 0 points, which is impossible.

That's why I ask a proof on the 0. Thanks me later  

  • Undead
  • avatar of Undead
  • Proof Admin
  • 472 messages
  • Gender
  • Location
  • Offline  
2017-12-02 17:36:33 - Last edit the 2017-12-02 17:37:37  
Anoing here, anoing there... How about prooving the score at the same time your send them? Sure it's anoing if you have a 1st Place and you need to use an old Game to take a Picture. But that's like i said: Do it at the same time, and theres no anoing part you get asked.

You know what's more anoing? Get beaten by lazy ppl. How about every first place score get beaten by someone wit few prooven scores? Fun right?

If you playing Score Games "just for fun" then there's not realy a reason to make them public.(posting them online)

Btw: you wonder why some of your scores get's asked for a proof? Think about it. Maybe you have a very low amount of Proofs compare to your scores.

Btw: it's funny that we need a "this Person cheat" reason to accept... My Opinion is still: if you have a First place? Be proud of it and proof it, Not "i proof maybe, if i get asked for it. And "empty numbers" is not a score. It's like you speedrunning a Game on your own, get a nice time, but no proof = like never happen.

It's also funny that some ppl here care more about other ppl they not visit the site anymore. How about we active ppl leave if we are "not that Special". Arvain is maybe a skilled Person, but why he do not care about his scores?

If you think playing on scores stops after reaching the score, then Play with you alone. If you not proud of your scores to Show them, then stop posting them...

  • OkamiAma77
  • avatar of OkamiAma77
  • Game & Proof Admin
  • 3784 messages
  • Gender
  • Location
  • Offline  
2017-12-02 18:07:49  

Undead :

If you playing Score Games "just for fun" then there's not realy a reason to make them public.(posting them online)


So we can't compare our scores to other "just for fun" ? That may be your point of view, but not everyone's. People can score just for fun, post just for fun, and nobody should judge them for that.

Undead :

Arvain is maybe a skilled Person, but why he do not care about his scores?


Arvain has currently 12k unprooved records. If you have a slow connection, it can takes 10 seconds to upload a proof, could be even more. That means more than 30 hours just to send proofs. You can even multiply it if he upload records on differents websites. And I'm not even talking about taking all pictures, which is even more time spent. He chose to spent that time improving his records rather than proove all of them. That does not mean he doesn't care about his scores, else he wouldn't have proved a thousand of them. That means he prefer to play and let every proof he has already taken speak for all his records.

  • Haruhi
  • avatar of Haruhi
  • Translator
  • 64 messages
  • Gender
  • Location
  • Offline  
2017-12-03 03:19:27  
It takes me more than a minute to upload to VGR per proof picture, and a vid for a guitar hero score is over 2 hours per video.

  • Undead
  • avatar of Undead
  • Proof Admin
  • 472 messages
  • Gender
  • Location
  • Offline  
2017-12-03 19:37:32 - Last edit the 2017-12-03 19:43:28  
@OkamiAma77
You get me wrong on this "just for fun" (thats why i wrote them in "!")

I don't say Score gaming should not make fun and is pure serious. It's just the fact, that if you have a reason to post your scores online, then you should also prepared that someone want to see the scores on a Picture or in a Video. = to compare even better
Like i said: you can not make a speedrun on your own and everyone should think that this score is legit.

See it on my Point: i was sometimes forced to proove scores more specific because ppl don't believe me, EVEN i have nearly 100% of prooven scores. Haruhi on FFTCC has 3 of over 300 Scores prooven and this stupid 3 scores are enough to say every other score is fine? Sry but thats BS.
How about we remove every proof Option from the site, if it's just waste of time...

Arvain is now a "missing" person if hes not here anymore, his scores are not like "immortal". 12k scores prooving in one step is way to big, but why he don't start it at the beginning, slowly? What do you think how many scores i proove in the past months on CS, and how old this scores are (some of 2006!) Over 1000.
And still i do not say every score, but the first places. If you realy just "play for fun" then don't destroy other ppl scores just for fun without prooving them.

Haruhi on the other hand is active but after posting new scores, it stops after an empty number and if this happen on one of my scores, of course i want to see this score prooven. It's not just want to to see the score for fun. But if our Prooving system is only there to see if someone cheat, then it's useless if we can not use it otherwise.

@Haruhi
You told me, that your pictures are made in png? Thats why it takes longer to upload. png is like 5x bigger then jpg. but i also told you how to get easy good pictures from your 3DS in jpg. How long you thin it takes to upload one of my jpg pictures? arround 1 sec.
And again: i never said that you should proove every score on a single day. But you do NOT even try to proof at least one score per day...

  • Lucario
  • avatar of Lucario
  • Proof Admin
  • 3316 messages
  • Gender
  • Location
  • Offline  
2017-12-03 19:56:20  
I understand your reaction Undead. I had the same effect when Arvain posted his incredible records on the Guitar Hero, but he gave no proof. He was too lazy at what he said. However, there was a video on Youtube (a good editing) playing on the four instruments at the same time in Expert. That was for a song. He never knows how to prove his records here because he is known to comment on the best French player in this regard.

I would like him to prove his records too. But since he is a King, he will not force himself to post his evidence on a small forum like VGR. I remember being rough with him because I was stunned by the huge amount of records he posted in plantin for Guitar Hero games without even bothering to prove anything. It pains me to see people with little investment who amuse themselves to post incredible records without proving that they really did so when in doubt.

Yes, there is the Youtube aspect in there. But, we can not attach his Youtube videos to VGR because we do not have a function to copy links that is related to the records he has supposedly made. If only this option could have been considered for one day on VGR, it will spur more people to prove their records. Otherwise, they allow themselves all without being in danger because they are known. Popularity wins over everything else.

  • Undead
  • avatar of Undead
  • Proof Admin
  • 472 messages
  • Gender
  • Location
  • Offline  
2017-12-04 22:53:14  
See, and this sucks hard. We are still active, but our scores are not that "Special" enough to care about, even everything is prooven. But if someone who left the site(maybe forever?) is automatic legendary and there scores are written in Stone.

packattack and Triple HHH are the same. "oh no, don't ask any scores of them to be prooven, because it will be deleted" OF COURSE they will deleted, because it's just a number. And all that "high skilled" ppl are to good for any Highscore site now, to care about what they post in the past?

How about i start to post everywhere now 1st places without any single proof? Do i get asked for proove? Sure, i will get asked.

If this scores are realy that special, then this guys should come back and care about them. Or should i delete all my pictures on the site and leave, so all my scores are "immortal" too? Do we get only legendary if we leave? Think about that... for us, this is not fun at all, if we stay here like idiots and looking on numbers of ppl are not here anymore. wow...

  • Bradon D.
  • avatar of Bradon D.
  • Member
  • 99 messages
  • Gender
  • Location
  • Offline  
2017-12-05 00:33:21  
Your points seem to lean onto one side that is if one person doesn't do it, I shouldn't. Some people can't proof, some don't have the time, others can proof if it were only easier to do. The only way I can send is to text it to my IPod and then bring it into the site (this also is worse when my iPod's camera doesn't work) all other ways are too much for the site to handle.

About your immortal thing: Some people (that are known to always be legit and have never lied [Packattack]) have finished their career in records. So, does that mean that after many years they should come back and proof scores that don't need to be proven (and before you say anything, do you think that everyone should proof because they need to? This is a record site after all! Not a proof site.) They are sometimes known as the main developer of strats, runs, WRs. They sometimes have proofs or videos of their records that were just not put on the site because of the time it took.

I can see where some records can seem to be impossible or hard to get; but should we always judge that each and every record that isn't proven is fake? NO!

Although in some senarios like this, people should do research before asking for a proof (and not ask just because they think it's fake). Like the SMG racing 101, someone who posted their record thought that sub 55 sec was impossible (what I think was what they were doing), so they reported every one in there without a proof. I was able to proof myself but PackaAttack couldn't because 1. It's on his YouTube, and 2. He doesn't care for records sites anymore.

But in other scenarios; no one would believe you if you beat a WR out of nowhere with no proof. Records always should be proven if they are really strong and seem to look like they aren't correct or look fake.

  • zephyraz
  • avatar of zephyraz
  • Proof Admin
  • 1255 messages
  • Gender
  • Location
  • Offline  
2017-12-05 10:54:12  
@Haruhi :
These proof requests are not silly or frivolous, and there is many reasons to accept these asks. 
Usually proof admins are enough trusted and responsible to be not obliged to answer you, but 3 already did. VGR has rules, you have to respect them, and the staff also.

In your case, if you look in details for your record in Guitar Hero III : Legends of Rock:
- you are in  the  1st place. There is 33 members behind you
- in this game, you have 273 scores without proof  (but still 5 platinum medals)
- in this game you are in the 2nd place, the best placed  member with 0 proof, and there is 107 people behind you
- some members already proved some scores in this game
- this game is on recent system, with memory card
- in the Guitar Hero series (12 games), you have 0 proof in 1384 scores !    
- you have 12 games with 0 proof on more than 100 scores
- for the % of proven scores, you have only 5,8% (less than VGR average of 29%, and worse, less than 10%...  )

I will also add few remarks, more personal:
- whatever the world record is, we are in VGR, we need to compare with what we see in this site.
- it’s not because nobody submitted a record since 3 years, that everything is frozen for eternity.
- you have to assume your past records. It is considered like a shame if you didn’t find the time to proove some, since the last 3 years or more.
- with your records in this game, you earned more than 50 000 PtsGame, and more than 400 000 PtsRecords. This contributes a lot to your rankings in VGR,  because you are part of the Top 100 PtsGame, so the 2% best members in VGR for this main ranking, well highlighted by the site in the home page. Did you already think about the 98% of the others members? You have to respect them, assume your records, and show proof when it is needed.
- I agree that there is probably exceptions for known members like you, Admins staff or legendary people (in VGR or other sites). But you also need to understand that it is not fair to compete against your records, if you did not proved at least some few 1st places (or worse details , mentioned above).
- if you took advantage of the time where you should take and send proofs, for playing another game: that’s not fair, you should understand this.
- please also remember that all members were obliged to proove 1st place at one period in VGR.
It was too counter-productive, so VGR get back to a more “respect and free” system, as before.

Conclusion: here there is not only 1 good reason to ask you for proofs, there is many…  

For your other proof asks, it depends on the active controller in charge of it.
I will say that is really justified for GH World Tour, where you are the first member with no proof among 75, and for GH III Legends of Rock  where you are 2nd/109, still with no proof.
Take care of that, and also for your 12 other games where you have more than 100 scores without any proof ! So actually, you can consider you happy for not having more asks in all these games. 

Finally, it seems that you are not realizing how it is important to proove at least some records, because you are focusing on your own point of view. It is a question of respect for all the other members in the same games you own, for all the members in VGR (due to the different internal rankings), for the newcomers, but also for all the visitors of this site.
Like others said, if you spend many time to do these records, and send them in VGR, you must take time to proove some. There is no obligation for this, but for sure, soon or later, a minimum trust is required !  

It is now time for you to proove your skills…

  • Haruhi
  • avatar of Haruhi
  • Translator
  • 64 messages
  • Gender
  • Location
  • Offline  
2017-12-05 14:56:20  
Hi zephyraz.

I agree that I have not proven enough of my scores. It doesn't necessarily counter that the requests that I have received are frivolous.

A few responses to your points:

- I agree that VGR should compare to what is seen on this site, however when it comes to justifying a report of a record, other high-scoring communities are valuable at determining whether a report is justified. - I agree that people not submitting for 3 years does not indicate that everything should be frozen. That said, the fact that nobody has submitted to that chart suggests that the report has been conducted by someone who is not a submitter to that game and thus does not have contextual knowledge to make it a valid report.
- I agree that my positioning on the boards indicates that I should proof more. I intend to do that and have already intended to do that. I wish VGR had better proof support for that reason, as it is very limiting.
- I disagree that admins/staff/legendary people/special webmasters should receive any exceptions. I have had situations where some of my staff (elsewhere to VGR) have been legitimately questioned over their records and have been caught doing the wrong thing. Nobody gets special treatment.

Finally, I'd like to make it clear that I'm not really so interested in this discussion from my own perspective - I can and will prove my GHWT/GH3 records are some point, as in most cases I already have proof pictures uploaded onto the internet (Such as here for GH3) and it is simply a matter of converting to .jpg and reuploading here. It really isn't an issue for me, and I've already cleared over 100 of my blackened records in the past.

However it frustrates me very much that Arvain's platinums will be blackened based on this proof policy. I know that no-one from VGR staff is going to make any effort to contact him at all. I want to make this clear. I lose 1000 platinums to Arvain. I would very much stand to gain from reporting his platinums needlessly, however I am one of the few people still on this site that knows just how strong his records are, and just how much work he has put into them. To suggest that reporting one of his records because I tied it is not frivolous is bizarre to me. It is frivolous.

P.S. At some point I was unable to submit more records due to not having enough proof. I don't appear to have this issue anymore however I'm sure that my proof % is way too low. Is there a point at which that block disappears?

  • Lucario
  • avatar of Lucario
  • Proof Admin
  • 3316 messages
  • Gender
  • Location
  • Offline  
2017-12-05 15:58:07  
Zeyphraz explains the situation very well. If you do not want to prove your records, that's not a problem. But, you are responsible for each of your files. This is not the staff to check your antecedents. One must have a minimum of confidence in a player who is supposedly legitimate to post his incredible records. I can not judge just that on a video, but on the set of one or more game (s).

Besides, some people like Kirby54 and Packattack, they are very popular on Youtube and more than 40,000 people up to 1.5 million follow them every day. They do not always have time to come on VGR or Cyberscore to check their account. On the other hand, they are both responsible for providing a bare minimum of evidence to prove their good faith. Packattack never bothered to provide much evidence on VGR because he was loyal to Cyberscore. This thing annoys me, but I must respect that.

Haruri: Arvain will not listen to me anyway. We do not expect together. He has not been on VGR for a long time. It is his fault if he does not prove his games where he is often first on a record. When he was there, he proved records on Diddy Kong Racing and Super Smash Bros. Melee where he was ordinary. I have a hard time understanding a person who proves records between 5th and 15th place while he has other games like Guitar Hero where he is first everywhere. It makes no sense.

  • yicestmoi
  • avatar of yicestmoi
  • Member
  • 906 messages
  • Gender
  • Location
  • Offline  
2017-12-05 21:59:13 - Last edit the 2017-12-05 22:18:32  
it's a shame to have time to accept "frivolous" proofs requests and in the same time to not have time to accept picture proofs waiting for validation.  


c'est dommage que des proofs administrators prennent le temps d'accepter ces frivolous proofs requests alors que dans le même temps, ils n'ont pas le temps de valider les preuves en attente envoyées par d'autres membres

  • zephyraz
  • avatar of zephyraz
  • Proof Admin
  • 1255 messages
  • Gender
  • Location
  • Offline  
2017-12-07 11:32:23  

yicestmoi :

it's a shame to have time to accept "frivolous" proofs requests and in the same time to not have time to accept picture proofs waiting for validation.  


c'est dommage que des proofs administrators prennent le temps d'accepter ces frivolous proofs requests alors que dans le même temps, ils n'ont pas le temps de valider les preuves en attente envoyées par d'autres membres


Even if there is a lot of waiting  proofs  at the moment, controllers already know it, and requests for proofs (regardless of their type) are given priority.
If there are games where you have pending proofs and where you notice the presence of at least 1 controller, do not hesitate to contact him by PM if needed. Although I remember that they have no obligation to do so quickly, this rest of volunteering took on their free time.

I personally validated you proofs on Gran Turismo 4, in majority before your mail.
For the other games, you know who is inactive, but you have to know that there are at least 7 active controllers at the moment.

Même s'il y a beaucoup de preuves en attente en ce moment, les contrôleurs le savent déjà, et les demandes de preuves (quelle que soit leur nature) sont à traiter en priorité.
S'il y a des jeux où tu as des preuves en attente et où tu constates la présence d' aumoins 1 contrôleur, n'hésites pas à le contacter par MP si besoin. Même si je rappelle qu'ils n'ont pas d' obligation à le faire rapidement, cela reste du bénévolat pris sur leur temps libre.

Je t'ai personnellemnt validé des preuves sur Gran Turismo 4, en grande partie avant ton mail.
Pour les autres jeux, à toi de savoir qui est inactif, mais saches qu’il y a aumoins 7 contrôleurs actifs en ce moment.

Page 1/1