Loading...

Page 1/2
< Previous 1 2 Next >
  • Basile
  • avatar of Basile
  • Proof Admin
  • 4523 messages
  • Gender
  • Location
  • Offline  
2019-03-21 09:43:31  
As you all have probably noticed before, you can have lucky mons by trading on Pokémon Go.
What I want to discuss with you here, is, should we allowed it on VGR, or not ?

Two points :
It could be unfair for people if they have nobody to trade with, that can't get this mons (better in CP chart cause less expensive to upgrade), even if it's rare to get them.
It could be unfair to delete the one people made and invest in it, not knowing it was not allowed or not, because of the"no specific rules before".

And obviously, we can not see on a screen if an XS or XL mons was traded before.
So if we refuse it, we may have to proove with a double screenshots (bottom with only place and not trade name, and the up with the mon itself).

Or we could just allow the trading feature, with the lucky, only in CP charts.

What do you guys think about it ?
We need to put rules, as I will be fair and that we can play equally

  • Pest
  • avatar of Pest
  • Member
  • 69 messages
  • Gender
  • Location
  • Offline  
2019-03-21 10:01:04  
I dont know why we will not accept lucky pokemon.
It's just random, as the score itself (XS and XL are RNG, as the lucky pokemon).

Because trading rebalance the CP, it's just random, as you catch it in the wild. His CP will b random
That's my view.
But even if I understand why trading is forbidden on XS and Xl, as I agree with it, i dont want to put two screenshots for one proof because it take too much time already

  • Sellyme
  • avatar of Sellyme
  • Member
  • 25 messages
  • Gender
  • Location
  • Offline  
2019-03-21 10:39:12  
Here's the facts of the matter, for anyone who's not up to speed on trading:

- You can trade a Pokemon to anyone within 50 metres of you.
- This trade costs stardust. The amount of stardust decreases depending on friend level.
- When a Pokemon is traded, its IVs change, but its level, height, and weight do not. This makes it possible to trade a guaranteed XS/XL record Pokemon, but not possible to trade a guaranteed CP record (100%) Pokemon.
- A traded Pokemon is indicated as such at the very bottom of its info card, an area that is not visible at the same time as CP (and thus not visible in almost any proof screenshot on VGR)
- A traded Pokemon has a very small chance (5%) of becoming "Lucky". Lucky Pokemon have a base IV level of 12/12/12.
- Lucky Pokemon are very easily visible on normal proof screenshots.
- Non-Lucky Pokemon have a base IV of 1/1/1, 2/2/2, 3/3/3, or 5/5/5 depending on whether you and the trainer you traded with are Good, Great, Ultra, or Best friends respectively. This puts them as comparable to Weather Boosted natural spawns (4/4/4).
- Certain Pokemon can not be traded (Mew, Celebi, Deoxys, possibly Spiritomb), but most legendaries can.
- Legendary Pokemon cost significantly more stardust to trade, as do shinies, and "unowned" Pokemon. This can go up to 1,000,000 stardust per trade!
- You receive between 1 and 3 candy for the Pokemon you are sending in a trade, depending on how far away it was caught from the Pokemon you are receiving. You receive 1 candy for 0-10km distance, 2 candy for 10-100km, and 3 candy for 100km+.
- Pokemon can only be traded once.
- If two L30+ players who are Best Friends caught the same non-legendary Pokemon, it can be traded between them and both players will gain 1 candy for that Pokemon at a cost of 100 stardust.

In short, this means that it is strategically viable to trade low IV but high CP Pokemon with a Ultra/Best Friend, "rerolling" its IVs. This is functionally equivalent to catching another copy of that same Pokemon. Importantly, this costs stardust (rather than giving you stardust), and isn't actually that strong (traded Pokemon will on average have worse IVs than Pokemon acquired from raids, eggs, or research tasks). As stardust is the most valuable resource in the game for the purposes of competing on VGR, it's not like doing this for CP rerolls is a major competitive advantage. As such, I see no harm in allowing it.

However, as height and weight stay the same, you could theoretically trade for a small number of extremely large or small Pokemon that are guaranteed to give you records at a low cost. I am unaware of anyone having done this however it should be addressed. I feel like it should go without saying that it's not within the spirit of the site for someone to, for example, trade an XL Charmander to one of their friends so that they can both have the #1 record. However, given the large number of legitimate reasons to trade Pokemon, I don't think that this is justification for a blanket ban of trading. Additionally, given that collusion of this kind between VGR members is very easily detectable via the identical records/proofs, while trading is impossible to prove 95% of the time, I think that it's much more reasonable to just ban this specific practice, while allowing trading as a whole.

  • atomiks
  • avatar of atomiks
  • Proof Admin
  • 535 messages
  • Gender
  • Location
  • Offline  
2019-03-21 10:49:46  
FR

De mon point de vue, on devrait ne pas accepter les pokemon échangés afin de jouer plus équitablement dont comme tu le dis, au vu de joueurs n'ayant pas accès a cette possibilité, de la réalisation par soi etc...

Mais je pense que cela amenerait une un changement de façon de jouer pour certains qui par exemple joue avec deux comptes ou plus et qui s'échange regulièrement ses pokemon entres ses comptes ou bien qui prête son compte à un ami pour chopper un 100IVs ou XS/XL trouvé.

De plus, le double capture d'écran prendrait plus de temps ( même si je pense qu'il reste tout à fait possible d'en faire qu'un) à prouver son score mais aussi une possiblité de juger autrui avec le lieu de capture et la date, mélant le doute au "fly", incluant un contrôle de preuves plus poussé etc...

Je ne voudrais pas lancer de débats sur la façon de jouer à Pokemon Go car j'ai déjà énormement débattu la dessus en tant qu'Admin du groupe de ma commune, au près d'elle X)

Donc c'est assez difficile de choisir honnêtement ^^

English


From my point of view, exchanges should be accepted in order to play more fairly, as they have been, etc.

But I think that's what has happened to change how to play for some, for example, with one or two accounts flowing regularly / XL found.

In addition, the double capture of the screen capture of the time (even if I think that everything is possible to do one) is proven, but it is also possible to take a picture. and the date, mixing doubt with the "fly", including a more advanced proof control etc ...

I would not want me to play on how to play Pokemon Go because I have already debated the above as an administrator of the group of my commune, near her X)

So it's pretty hard to honestly choose ^^

  • Basile
  • avatar of Basile
  • Proof Admin
  • 4523 messages
  • Gender
  • Location
  • Offline  
2019-03-21 11:52:54 - Last edit the 2019-03-21 11:57:47  
I join most of the points here.
We can't ignore that now, Pokémon Go is a multiplayer game.
Not in the score part, but in the way of playing.
You need Friends to achieve tasks (trade a mons, having 3 friends for celebi...), you need friends to make legendary raids (well, if you have 4/5 phones with account you dont need friends, but I seriously doubt about someone here having this), you need friends to interact and optimise the way of playing.

But, some people may choose to not play with people, so they dont get that advantage, and obviously those lucky pokemon. But that's also their choice..

But, I can't re-make proofs that I already made, because I delete the XS/XL mons when screened because of the lack of storage..

Also, bring by Smoka, we will forbid the reduce proofs, as now it will be mandatory to have full screen proofs with Stardust, candies and monster to show everything.
Also, I will delete mine, and replace it with correct proofs, and I suggest to everyone that could have done this to do the same, so we not think that it's another player's proof


PS: Do not forget that it's a F2P game. So, people paying for raids, egss, starpieces... will have more advantages than the others, but that's also THEIR choice to put money on the game, and that depend on everyone is considering how is it fair or not to have people paying for a game (in the score view)..

  • MiMo
  • avatar of MiMo
  • Member
  • 197 messages
  • Gender
  • Location
  • Offline  
2019-03-21 13:54:56  
I don't see any problem on allow lucky/traded Pokemon.
Even if it's a little easy to max out the pokémon IVs it will require some time, and some dust!!!
As you guys know, Pokemon GO is a F2P...the chances of who spent more money be the one who has the most rare pokémons (in our case, max IVs and sizes) is gigantic!!!

About "have friends"...come on.....everybody who plays this game have at least 5 best buddies!

In resume, in my opinion, let's the things go, the way they are currently going...

  • zephyraz
  • avatar of zephyraz
  • Chief Proof Admin
  • 1612 messages
  • Gender
  • Location
  • Offline  
2019-03-21 13:57:55 - Last edit the 2019-03-21 14:00:17  
For this kind of problem, you need to have a general agreement between the 36 members playing this game. Or at least, the majority of the Top 10 players (who usually sent the most scores, went far and better knows the games and its specificities).
You can also make a poll and vote for what you prefer.

After that, you need to create an internal topic for this game, like "Help and rules for prooving".
Then, if you decided to forbid reduced proofs, we should probably deleted the remaining ones.
Even if it seems unfair (like you told).
Because if they don't read the "rules" topic and go directly to the VGR score page, they can think they can make reduced proofs again. This will avoid lot of time to picture senders and controllers (with lot of potential refusal messages to send  ).

As an internal point of view, I will say that if the game is made for multiplayer connexions and trade, this is the wish of developers, and you should accept it like it is mostly played.
Also, you need to think about the utility of some records: if they are mostly due to luck, why not. But if it's only due to luck, I think they are useless in VGR. We are not casino gamers.
But if everybody here are against trading and prefer double screens proofs, if you make clear and respected rules, of course it will prevail.

Contact members with MP, make a poll, and after apply what the majority decided.

  • Asep
  • avatar of Asep
  • Redactor
  • 973 messages
  • Gender
  • Location
  • Offline  
2019-03-21 18:29:00  
I typically am a 100% solo player, so when I saw trading coming to the game I thought "this is the end of fair competition".

To me a real "records gamer" will always want his scores to be 100% from him ; if not, what's the point ?

But in this case it would be too complicated to prove / check, especially for already posted scores, so I guess we can't forbid anything.


NB : if it wasn't one of my biggest games, I would probably say that heights and weights are not records and should not be on VGR, what solves a part of the problem :)

2019-03-23 05:51:44  
I'm Basically like Asep and prefer to send scores from only my own Pokemon.
Even though I don't like having traded Pokemon count towards a person's records on VGR, I don't see any easy method of proving that we didn't use a traded Pokemon otherwise. There are too many problems with accepting 2 photos as proof, and requiring video proof for every Pokemon is excessive.

I vote for allowing traded Pokemon to count on the VGR charts.
Reading Sellyme's post above only gives me more reason to stick with this vote.

I probably won't use any traded Pokemon, but it is my choice, since Trading is basically available to everyone.

  • Smoka
  • avatar of Smoka
  • Proof Admin
  • 140 messages
  • Gender
  • Location
  • Offline  
2019-03-26 10:05:12 - Last edit the 2019-03-26 10:17:00  
Thanks Basile for starting this topic.

We had a topic about trading last year and then came to conclusion that trading should not be allowed. And if it would be allowed, height and weight charts wouldn't make sense anymore in VGR. But as I was checking proofs, I noticed Basile had posted a lucky pokemon (which you can only get from trading) and I knew he was aware of this rule, so I was confused, as we have denied lucky pokemon proofs before.
And apparently there was a rule change made in discord chat to allow trading. Which I (and maybe others) wasn't aware of.
And that's why we have this topic now.

Because of the difficulty to prove these scores (double screenshot or video) and because of the limited space (people delete pokemon after sending proof) and because there are already scores posted from traded pokemon. I think we have no choice but to allow trading. But does these scores make sense anymore with trading? People have invested a lot of time to make these scores, so other option (not a popular one, I'm sure) would be to remove these charts.

If we decide to keep them, we also need to decide if we ban the 1st gen pokemon from 2016 affected by the height/weight bug. And also what to do with the few Max CP pokemon scores that are not achievable anymore after the CP rebalance updated from last year.

  • Sellyme
  • avatar of Sellyme
  • Member
  • 25 messages
  • Gender
  • Location
  • Offline  
2019-03-26 14:29:04  

Smoka :

But does these scores make sense anymore with trading?


I still think so. There's no trade fairy where you can just get whatever height/weight Pokemon you want for free, even if you decided to actively start contacting people and trying to offer them stuff you still have to offer them something of value so that they'll bother going through the time consuming process of checking everything and trading you a large/small Pokemon. This is especially true in the case of rarer Pokemon (legendaries), which are likely the only ones where someone not part of this site is likely to have potential records - I've caught 800 Growlithe and checked every single one of them for height and weight, what are the chances that anyone I contact who only has one or two in their box will have a larger one? If the only Pokemon you're likely to get records of through trading are super rare, you're going to have to sacrifice something valuable yourself to get it.

In short, I reckon that it's probably more effective to just catch more Pokemon than it is to metagame trading, and this combined with the fact that no-one seems to be trading as a means to acquire XL/XS Pokemon (instead just trying to get candy + IV rerolls) makes me believe that the scores do make sense.


If we decide to keep them, we also need to decide if we ban the 1st gen pokemon from 2016 affected by the height/weight bug. And also what to do with the few Max CP pokemon scores that are not achievable anymore after the CP rebalance updated from last year.


It's worth noting that I have since found two examples of unbelievably light Pokemon that seemingly could only be caused by a bug that have occurred after the 2016 evolution bug. You may have seen the 0.06kg Treecko I posted in Discord. For this reason, it seems that the 2016 height/weight bug records in fact are not unbeatable as was initially suspected, although precisely how to beat them is currently unknown.

Maximum CP records are a bit trickier, but fortunately that affects far fewer records (I believe 9?)

  • Basile
  • avatar of Basile
  • Proof Admin
  • 4523 messages
  • Gender
  • Location
  • Offline  
2019-03-27 10:26:20  
We should make a poll for it.
I'm for the trading feature, since the only one thing I already use (for 4mons) is the lucky feature.
I do not want to see thousand and thousand of scores I made, I approuve with proofs and others invest many hours to just disappear. It's a great game to play, and have fun with, and my way of playing is the score one. So, removing this will make my desire of playing this game null.

  • atomiks
  • avatar of atomiks
  • Proof Admin
  • 535 messages
  • Gender
  • Location
  • Offline  
2019-03-27 14:45:50  

Basile :

We should make a poll for it.
I'm for the trading feature, since the only one thing I already use (for 4mons) is the lucky feature.
I do not want to see thousand and thousand of scores I made, I approuve with proofs and others invest many hours to just disappear. It's a great game to play, and have fun with, and my way of playing is the score one. So, removing this will make my desire of playing this game null.


+1


I agree with Basil!

Certainly, I would like the records to remain on a personal tone, our findings, our efforts but if it must require several proofs for a record, change the way it plays pokemon Go, forget the exchanges is a community attraction , exaggerating I would say: be limited to a solo experience of the game, which is not developing for this style personally ...
I think we would lose the pleasure to post records, because of the change of experience than the time to prove / check the records.

In addition, new functionality could very well happen on the game related to trade or other community aspects like "The lucky friend" recently found in the codes.

  • Smoka
  • avatar of Smoka
  • Proof Admin
  • 140 messages
  • Gender
  • Location
  • Offline  
2019-03-27 15:53:42  
Yes, there's no trade fairy, but you will still know exactly what score you get before you do the trade for the weight and height. Even if it's not good enough for platinum, if it improves your own score, it's most likely good enough for trade. And if someone chooses to cheat in trade, all they really need is a screenshot and we will have no way to know if a trade was even made.

Also if we don't allow two vgr users to share the same pokemon for #1 score, they could trade previous best with a friend after finding a better one. Group of irl friends competing together in vgr could give a huge advantage in this game and the team aspect of it. But we'll see.

If the trade feature was in the game since the beginning, maybe these charts wouldn't have been added at all. But now everyone wants to keep them. :)

  • Pest
  • avatar of Pest
  • Member
  • 69 messages
  • Gender
  • Location
  • Offline  
2019-03-27 16:32:13  
I agree with smoka, but you can't just delete everything.
I am playing pokémon go because it is in VGR, and I like to find XS, XL and best CP pokémon. This is the way i want to play
I am ok to allow trades in VGR, and I suggest that we could ask a double screenshots sometimes if we really have a doubt on an user score

  • Sellyme
  • avatar of Sellyme
  • Member
  • 25 messages
  • Gender
  • Location
  • Offline  
2019-03-27 20:18:54  

Smoka :


Also if we don't allow two vgr users to share the same pokemon for #1 score, they could trade previous best with a friend after finding a better one. Group of irl friends competing together in vgr could give a huge advantage in this game and the team aspect of it. But we'll see.


This would be noticeable, as it would result in the second player only having those #2 places for final-stage (or only-stage) Pokemon, and none of the pre-evolved forms (or the inverse, of the first person only having first-stage #1s). A record history feature would be helpful here too.

In the end though, it's pretty easy for someone to cheat if they wanted to, and trading doesn't really change that. The best we can do is discourage that kind of intra-team trading, hope people play fairly, and have some words with anyone who we notice deliberately disrupting the competition in that regard.

  • NPlay
  • avatar of NPlay
  • Moderator
  • 1950 messages
  • Gender
  • Location
  • Offline  
2019-03-28 12:54:42  
I know that's not this thread's main topic, but has there been a debate about scores which were posted before the CP formula change?

For example, a MAX CP Snorlax (100% IV & lvl 40) is CP 3225. Unlike most Pokémon, Snorlax was nerfed (PC-wise) by that formula change, so the best score is now impossible to reach. :/

  • atomiks
  • avatar of atomiks
  • Proof Admin
  • 535 messages
  • Gender
  • Location
  • Offline  
2019-03-28 14:14:35  
Actually, it had escaped me concerning the Pokemon affected by the change of PC lately ...
I think we should instead on this subject, move towards the current PC and forget the old now infeasible ...

  • MiMo
  • avatar of MiMo
  • Member
  • 197 messages
  • Gender
  • Location
  • Offline  
2019-03-28 15:36:47  
If we decide to keep them, we also need to decide if we ban the 1st gen pokemon from 2016 affected by the height/weight bug. And also what to do with the few Max CP pokemon scores that are not achievable anymore after the CP rebalance updated from last year.


About that...I had a record on 101-in-1 Games that was reached thanks to a bug, and it got deleted, beacuse I told everyone that it was impossible to reproduce. so I think taht this kind of scores must be deleted. (And I know that is not the main discussion!)

Now, about traded and Lucky Pokemon, I think it is part of the game.
Proofs with video os double pictures will make the competitors leave...

  • Kanbei
  • avatar of Kanbei
  • Member
  • 46 messages
  • Gender
  • Location
  • Offline  
2019-03-28 17:06:56  
I am good if we keep the trade and lucky pokemon
We may need to remove the not reachable score on the CP chart, just this

Page 1/2
< Previous 1 2 Next >