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  • Basile
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2020-06-13 12:08:27  
Hello guys!
After a request of Sellyme in the discord #PokemonGo, I thought it will be a better idea to put this question on the forum that everybody could see it and answer it.
Sellyme would like to propose that CP record buddy should not be allowed.

First, what's CP record buddy?
In Pokemon Go, every pokemon has some IV that's different from every different pokemon spawning in the world. These pokemon, no matter what their IVs are, can be powered up to a max level, and when this level is reached, they can not be powered up anymore.
The max level of the pokemon in the game is 40 (which is obtainable when you reach the level 38 ingame).
However, the buddy features allows you to reach another level: level 41.

The buddy feature is, when you walk and spend time with your buddy, your level of frienship will increase each day, from level 1 to level 4. When you'll reach level 4 with your buddy (it takes around 1 month, if you're diligent) your buddy can reach that level 41, no matter what his IV are or what level he is currently into (it can be level 9, and thanks to this feature, reach the level 10).


So, here is the Sellyme's point of view and request:

For two main reasons, and one supplementary one:
- Buddy CP is not permanent. The Pokemon doesn't really have that CP, it just gets a bonus under certain conditions. Imagine if the additional strength from weather boost was represented in CP too - that would make no sense for leaderboard purposes.
- This will retroactively invalidate a lot of records. Anyone who has evolved a 100% mon is basically screwed out of their plat/gold, because they can't un-evolve. Unlike any past invalidation through CP rebalances, we can very easily just say "well we can ignore that feature", because you can easily undo buddy CP.
- The buddy system is garbage and I don't think we should incentivise swapping buddies 20 times a day just to take a photo of our desk
I also feel like we should do this as soon as possible, so as to minimise the number of proofs that need to be redone.
(for ones that can't be redone for whatever reason we can still go "well yeah this is clearly a lvl40 100% so we know what CP it was anyway", it's not like anyone will lose records, but it's a bit annoying to do that)


I also feel like establishing the precedent of "non-permanent CP bonuses don't count" could be useful depending on how Niantic implements certain future features (Niantic is the dev of the game, lmao)

Here was the answer of NPlay:

Well, I get the point
I don't think lvl41 are more a problem than old CP formula for example
Some scores can't be reached right now, and in my opinion that's more important than beating past scores


And then, Sellyme's answer:

I think it is more of a problem: only 11 Pokemon can't be beaten due to the old formula (and many don't actually have submissions that can't be beaten - I think only Chansey/Blissey/Rhydon/Slaking/Snorlax actually have unbeatables?). Level 41 affects 680 Pokemon
I do agree that those records are also undesirable. Perhaps we could normalise those at the same time


According to this, here's my point of view, and thoughts about this.
Please, take in consideration that, while answering, it's ot because I'm a moderator that my answer is the right one. I want you to choose the side you prefer the most, that we can choose the right decision between players of this game. Thanks  


According to me, that Buddy features has pros and cons.
First, it's super annoying to do, and not fun at all. You need to take pictures, pet your buddy, give him berry, walk with him...
It's not really worth it, because to reach that level 41 and then that best score in the CP mode (because the Buddy features is ONLY concerning the CP charts) you will have to wait for around a month.
However, this is a feature that the dev CHOOSE to implement in the game. It's the dev's choices, and I think in many games we have to respect and deal with it. Because, if you take mobile games with power ups for instance. Dev choose to implement it in the game, so you have no other choices but to deal with it to make the best score.
Or, you have to choose between players (and that's the advantage of VGR) to have a competition WITHOUT it, and that's what we can do (and what we can do for others games, obviously). But here, it's really easy to see, because you can see that the pokemon is powered up to level 41 because of the yellow's bar that you can see in my proof here: Basile's proof

Why allowing it?
•Because it brings a new competition. If ppl have already the best scores for a CP pokemon (100% IV and level 40 mons), it's not reachable if you have not the same mons, or it can be only maxable and bring a gold by reaching the same amount.
But with this feature, you can now beat these scores by reaching the level 41 with your buddy. And this, even if your pokemon has not the perfect IV's.
For instance here: Basile's score, my score is better that any 100% mon, lvl 40. But, it can be outdated if somebody has better IV's and a level 41.
•Ppl now can choose strategically to have a buddy to reach this score, and beat score that was not able to be outdated before. This should be choose carefully, because it takes a lot of time to be best buddy, and obviously, you can't reach best buddy that easy, so it will be hard for ppl to abuse it, if it's a problem for you.
•The PVP feature. It helps a lot, for the PvP, to have a lvl 41 mon because he will be better that a lvl40 mons in a 1v1 scenario. Knowing this, lots of ppl have choosen thess mons to reach this level (NPlay for instance with Sableye or Palkia) to be more efficient in battle. This can't be undone, and it can brings a new thing for ppl doing this, having best score in CP charts AND a good mon for pvp.

Why not adding it?
•You can easily not having your pokemon with the buff, because your pokemon NEEDS to be your buddy when you want to CP to be boosted, even if he already reach the lvl 41.
•You can only have 20mons that could reach the lvl 41. After that, all your progress with be reset (i'm not sure about it, since it does not happened yet for me, I only have 4 best buddies)
•This is WAY TOO LONG. Obviously, your hard work will be rewarded with a platinum, but is it really worth it? I don't know.

I'm not 100% objective here, since I already spend a LOT of time to reach best buddy with my pokemon, to get best score for VGR. I will be very pissed if we do not allow this feature, but I will accept it if this is what the community here wants.
Since I have not powered up too many mons yet, I could be not that frustrating. Yet...

Besides, we don't know yet, but it could be possible that the current lvl 40 for mons will change in the future (with the addition of the ingame level, up to 50, fos instance), and then all the max CP charts will be outdated. We can't know yet, because of the possible dev's choices in the future.
And if this happens, we will have do deal with it. So why not dealing with the buddy feature?
The choices are all yours...

  • NPlay
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2020-06-13 12:30:23  
•You can only have 20mons that could reach the lvl 41. After that, all your progress with be reset (i'm not sure about it, since it does not happened yet for me, I only have 4 best buddies)


You can have as many best buddies as you want. The 20 limit is the number of buddy change per day.

•This is WAY TOO LONG. Obviously, your hard work will be rewarded with a platinum, but is it really worth it? I don't know.


A lot of scores takes way too long too.


Also, it's possible to reach best buddy with one Pokémon every  2 weeks, with enough work (and money). Also note that you can do that for several Pokémon at the same time, given that you're ready to walk 6km for each of them.


In my opinion, as CP buddy boost is an official part of the game, one that's been advertised by its creators, it should be accepted there, no matter how long it is.

Old scores will be defeated, but they won't be outdated. There scores will be still be possible in the current game mechanics, and improving these scores is just as easy as playing with your buddy.

This is why I brought up the subject of the CP formula change, since this change was a major breaking one. Some old scores are now impossible, even for original players. The old CP formula is just not in the game anymore.

As you've said, additional levels might be planned for Pokémon GO (dataming even says so). Those can also bring major changes to the rankings, and as part of the game we should accept them too.

  • Sellyme
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2020-06-13 12:49:14  
My position was already made clear in the OP, but just a few notes here:

it brings a new competition. If ppl have already the best scores for a CP pokemon (100% IV and level 40 mons), it's not reachable if you have not the same mons, or it can be only maxable and bring a gold by reaching the same amount.


I don't think bringing new competition is necessary. The charts aren't stagnant with every single Pokemon having a maxed 100% as the #1 score - the majority of Pokemon still have lots of room at the top for records to be beaten.

I also don't believe that it will become necessary at any point - even with the reduced rate of new releases, it's common enough for new Pokemon to be added that even I (as the person with by far the most "perfect" scores) am earning them slower than new ones are being released. Add this to the fact that things only get slower and slower as you start maxing all of the common spawns and are left with rare Pokemon or egg/raid exclusives, and I'm very confident that we will never reach a stage where competition is stagnant with every single chart having an unbeatable score.

In this way, I think buddy CP will have no effect on bringing new competition. People will become buddies with meta-relevant Pokemon quite quickly, and then we'll just have a new, slightly higher unbeatable record.

Besides, we don't know yet, but it could be possible that the current lvl 40 for mons will change in the future (with the addition of the ingame level, up to 50, fos instance), and then all the max CP charts will be outdated. [...] And if this happens, we will have do deal with it. So why not dealing with the buddy feature?


Fortunately I very, very highly doubt that this will ever happen, as it would massively upset competitive balance (and drastically reduce their income if you could beat T5 raids with fewer people). Player levels 41-50 may come eventually, but I would be shocked if this came along with the ability to power Pokemon up further.

As you've said, additional levels might be planned for Pokémon GO (dataming even says so).


The data-mining about additional levels is only for player levels. CPM for 41-50 has existed since the game was launched, and is a leftover from testing that has had no change in over five years. There's no indication that Pokemon levels will get an increase any time soon.

Because, if you take mobile games with power ups for instance..


I really like this analogy. In many games with P2W powerups, highscore sites elect to ignore them because they're not as competitively interesting as the standard gameplay. I feel strongly that the buddy feature is the same way, and we're fortunate that it's extremely easy to tell that the buddy feature is used - and also important, using the buddy feature doesn't in any way prevent you from getting a non-buddy CP of the same Pokemon. It's not like someone who gets a high score with powerups and then finds out that they're not allowed so that effort was wasted - here they can just change their buddy out for a few seconds, take a screenshot, and they're set.

I'm not 100% objective here, since I already spend a LOT of time to reach best buddy with my pokemon, to get best score for VGR. I will be very pissed if we do not allow this feature, but I will accept it if this is what the community here wants.


Would it not be correct to say that you've spent more time getting the stardust to max Pokemon that you then evolved? Allowing the buddy feature means I could very easily beat e.g., your 971cp (L40 100%) Seel record, and you would now have to invest twice as much as me to match my score, even though you were the one who got a maxed 100% first. I'd be far more pissed about having to invest tens of millions of stardust all over again to resecure my first places than I would be about having the time spent on the buddy feature invalidated. At least the investment into the buddy feature is just time, and not valuable in-game resources.

There scores will be still be possible in the current game mechanics, and improving these scores is just as easy as playing with your buddy.


As mentioned elsewhere - improving those scores is not easy for any Pokemon that was evolved. I have well over 100 plat/gold records where I no longer have that Pokemon at all, because I evolved it. I would not only have to find a second 100% of them, but also have to spend over 25,000,000 stardust just to get back to where I originally was, let alone improve them.

If we were going to start accepting e.g., a 100% maxed Pidgeot record as proof that I had a 100% maxed Pidgey, so I could just get buddies with the evolved forms and then update the prior ones as well, then that's a major concern out of the way, but we definitely shouldn't do that. For starters, I already have at least a dozen 100% Pokemon that I caught as an evolved form. I've submitted a maxed 100% Gloom, but I caught that as a Gloom! I've never actually had a 100% Oddish. So that unfortunately wouldn't actually prove anything.

In my opinion, as CP buddy boost is an official part of the game, one that's been advertised by its creators, it should be accepted there


I heavily disagree. Just like Basile's P2W powerups example, when something is so clearly delineated (like the yellow bar for buddy CP), we get to make the rules as to whether or not it's allowed. There's absolutely no reason that the developer's intent should matter - they have no idea that this site exists, so just assuming that whatever they do is what's best for this site's competition is lunacy. You see this same thing happening in the PoGo PvP scene - Silph hosts PvP cups with special restrictions that the game doesn't actually support, because they acknowledge that what the developer does has nothing to do with what's best for their competitions. The question is just whether competitive balance is better with buddy CP allowed, or without it.

  • Denetorn
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2020-06-13 13:10:24  
Well, Pokémon Go scores are just about the time you spend on the game, so allowing CP buddies just goes along with it.

If the feature had been in the game since the beginning we would have allowed it with no discussion. I understand how painful it would be for players with already evolved 100% maxed creatures, but maybe we can do something with the rules. Like if you have a proof of a 100% maxed Pikachu and a 100% maxed Raichu, if you send the proof of the same Raichu with CP buddy boost it can also prove the Pikachu.

And since the max CP will be harder to get, there will be more platinums instead of golds, that's also a good point.

  • Sellyme
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2020-06-13 13:33:29  

Denetorn :

Like if you have a proof of a 100% maxed Pikachu and a 100% maxed Raichu, if you send the proof of the same Raichu with CP buddy boost it can also prove the Pikachu.


I have a 100% Jynx and a 100% Magmar, both caught in the wild. Would I be able to submit those for Smoochum and Magby, and save myself the trouble of hatching eggs?

  • Denetorn
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2020-06-13 14:12:34 - Last edit the 2020-06-13 14:14:02  
Hmm I guess no, it has to be the same Pokémon that have been evolved (you must have a proof of the 100% maxed non evolved Pokémon).
We can check with height / weight.

2020-06-18 07:15:04  
I read all of this thread, and I have to say I agree with everything Sellyme says. I barely play this game, but I do not think the Buddy Feature is good for the site. The only thing stopping me from giving my opinion before was that I didn't know if there was a clear way to tell the difference between the Buddy Pokemon and the Normal ones, but I see now that it is pretty easy.

The fact that you can easily revert Buddy CP back to Normal CP gives me more reason to be in favor of not allowing it, as not allowing it doesn't really pose a problem to those who have Buddy Pokemon's CP powered up (apart from the time spent, but like someone said, there is incentive to get buddy pokemon in-game, so it isn't a real waste of time having done it for CP charts when you can still benefit from it in-game).

  • Pest
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2020-06-23 09:36:04  
I agree with both Sellyme and Basile points here.
This feature has pros and cons, but I guess it's hard to deal with

I would say that it is better to not have it the website, allowing only max CP scores, then we wil have no problem and no insane scores because some ppl can play way more than others (even if it's already the case for the best players: playing a lot to have better scores)

I don't mind if we allow it, or not, honestly

  • Basile
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2020-06-23 10:35:21  
Well, if everybody agree with this, then we will just not use the CP boost for the VGR "CP CHARTS".
Are everybody ok with this?

  • Basile
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2020-07-30 15:47:14  
Since nobody's properly answering here, we will then agree that we have to not allow that buddy feature.

More, now, we need to think about the old CP formula, and modify scores that could be in this formula

  • Denetorn
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2020-07-31 10:12:13  
And somebody will have to chase the already posted CP buddy scores :P

  • Basile
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2020-07-31 15:12:53  

Denetorn :

And somebody will have to chase the already posted CP buddy scores :P


I've mine to edit. Nplay already edit his score. Do you have some?

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